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1 Page 1 of 6 FDP Home Page / FDP Forum / Classifieds / FAQ's / Links The FDP is made possible by the following companies and individual members like you. Please use the links below to show them we value their sponsorship. WD Music Musician's Friend Jensen Loudspeakers Antique Electronics Supply Sweetwater Amplified Parts MOD KITS DIY Amazon Guitar Center God bless America and our men and women in uniform Illegitimi non carborundum! If you benefit and learn from the FDP and enjoy our site, please help support us and become a or make a Donation today! The FDP counts on YOU to help keep the site going with an annual contribution. It's quick and easy with PayPal. Please do it TODAY! Chris Greene, Host & Founder LOST YOUR PASSWORD?... For Sale/Wanted Classifieds FDP Jam Calendar Find musicians in your area! Search the Forums FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / Car problem diagnosis...? Jun 23rd, :54 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search Topic

2 Page 2 of 6 My wife's 2000 Toyota Camry (only 110K miles) started making a "groaning" sound accompanied by vibration (feel in steering wheel) when stopped a light or even idling in park/neutral. I have to take it to a dealer in the morning. Seems to be a power steering problem. I checked the fluid level a little low, but fluid still visible. I added some anyway, no change. So unlike the power steering sounds I've experienced in the past, the noise is loudest when I do NOT turn the steering wheel, and lessens significantly when I turn the wheel. The car works fine, just the noise which is making my wife very up tight, fearing a roadside breakdown. I'm thinking the power steering unit is on its last legs. What's the total cost of a replacement? I can't think of anything else that might make this sound/vibration. Can any of you? It's always good to at least seem to know what you're talking about when you take your car in for service. Thanks. jazzguy Philly, B 3 Capital Jun 23rd, :04 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search Topic likely the steering wheel shaft needs lube around the rubber grommet where it goes through the floor don't dream it...be it Waggler Blue Jay, OH Jun 23rd, :08 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search Topic If the power steering is driven by a serpentine belt, maybe a bad tensioner? Don't just do something...stand there Jun 23rd, :22 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search Topic Thanks. I will be sure to mention mention these when I check in. Standard24 San Antonio, Texas Jun 24th, :56 AM Edit Profile Print Topic Search Topic "likely the steering wheel shaft needs lube around the rubber grommet where it goes through the floor" I hate to agree with an Eagles fan, but this sounds reasonable to me. Try spraying WD 40 on the shaft. There are universal joints on this shaft that may have gotten dry too. Here's a link to someone else who fixed this problem, with advise from a Toyota tech. cars suvservice repairs no trucks/ toyota camry steeringwheel groans.html LudwigVonFender Jun 24th, :08 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search Topic

3 Page 3 of 6 Earth Hello from Earth "the noise is loudest when I do NOT turn the steering wheel, and lessens significantly when I turn the wheel." I doubt there's a problem with anything on the steering shaft. If this is steering related, it may be a bad pump as the groan maybe caused by air in the system which is called aeration. Could also be referred to as pump cavitation. Charlie Macon Austin, Texas Yeeeehaaaa! Jun 24th, :31 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search Topic May not have anything to do with it, but my son's 2005 Camry was losing fluid via a small leak in the fluid return line. I read up on it, and it was a commonly reported problem. We resolved it with the simple addition of a more secure hose clamp. Cannot remember if his was making a noise associated with the loss of fluid. jazzguy Philly, B 3 Capital don't dream it...be it Jun 24th, :39 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search Topic "I hate to agree with an Eagles fan, but this sounds reasonable to me." mighty big of ya, but everything's bigger in Tejas, no? Jun 24th, :50 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search Topic Since my wife first mentioned this noise and I evaluated it, she has used the car. Before leaving early this morning to be at the Toyota dealer when the service shop opened, I evaluated the noise again. This time it was almost constant, regardless of turning the steering wheel. When I put the car into gear, the engine slowed of course, and the noise and vibration increase in intensity. The noise, it seemed, did not disappear when driving, just masked by road noise. Anyway, I demo'd the problem for the service check in guy and mentioned the possibilities noted in this thread. So, I got an oil change and a no charge inspection: with the noise so loud now, they were convinced that the pump was going bad. It's pretty loud now, and my wife isn't going to wait any longer and fool around with it; made an appt. to replace it. In the mean time, I'm going to lube that grommet at least to see what happens and just to have a little fun doing something new. (I'm assuming it is accessed from the inside of the car.) I had no time for this since first posting; my wife made sure I was on the road by 6:30 AM. At this point, it sounds like pump failure is imminent. Anyway, thank you all. You can always count on helpful advice at Moe's. :) PS: LudwigVonFender: Am I correct in assuming that aeration is indicative of a bad pump? This rings a bell with me. I had to add a small amount of fluid to the reservoir the other day, and this morning, even with the engine cold, it was slightly overfilled (above the full "hot" line. It was

4 Page 4 of 6 not the case when I added fluid when the engine was fairly hot. I'm thinking that there is, indeed, (even more) air in the pump/line creating a back pressure, pushing fluid back into the reservoir... LudwigVonFender Earth Hello from Earth Jun 24th, :17 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search Topic "PS: LudwigVonFender: Am I correct in assuming that aeration is indicative of a bad pump?" Not always, running the pump almost dry or very low can cause aeration as well. Aeration can also make the fluid foam but, not always. If the pump is bad it most likely is due to a worn impeller creating loose tolerance. (This message was last edited by LudwigVonFender at 06:17 PM, Jun 24th, 2015) Jun 24th, :34 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search Topic Thanks. The fluid level never really got really low, so based on my visit to Toyota today, the continual increase in noise & vibration, and all the info here, I tend to agree that the pump is bad. The car also has a long term oil leak, seeming to come from the back valve cover gasket at passenger's side next to the fire wall. Fifteen years old not a real surprise. Not wanting to risk (possibly) an engine fire I'm getting these replaced, too, and hoping they are the only source of leaking. The repairs will cost me, but the car is in otherwise good shape and my wife really likes it heavy, handles well, nice & comfortable leather seats, and the V6 runs like a champ lots of pep (only 109,300 miles). Jun 26th, :56 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search Topic "Trust, but verify." This is my approach to all auto repair places. So today and yesterday I put silicone lube on the rubber grommet. No change, unfortunately. Last night, after an hour or two on the internet, and YouTube in particular, I decided to replace the steering wheel fluid. Today I bought a couple of quarts of fluid (uses ATF) and a small hand pump from Harbor Freight. Other than spilling a quart of old fluid on my drive way, it went pretty well. I did the "easy" method of removing as much fluid from the reservoir as possible with the hand pump and refilling with new fluid. Did this five times and after each change the fluid gradually almost became the red clear color of the new fluid. I had the front wheels off the ground, supported by a couple of jack stands I bought about 20 years ago (thinking that these might be handy some day...) so that I could easily bleed air from the system eliminating the aeration or cavitation by working the steering wheel "lockto lock." With the front end elevated / front wheels off the ground, the power steering pump did not make that groaning noise and I thought I fixed things. When I was done and the wheels were back on the ground, I started the engine again and was quickly disappointed to hear the moan / groan again. It is very loud inside the car; not so much outside. I went off to find someone experienced in engine noises and diagnosis, and the diagnosis of a bad

5 Page 5 of 6 pump was confirmed. Well, that was my day enough work for an ORF. Bubbalou THE LOW END OF UPPER TEJAS Jun 26th, :46 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search Topic "mighty big of ya, but everything's bigger in Tejas, no?" everything's bigger in Tejas, yes! Seriously that can't be true. I am only 5'8" in height, but I hate to mention that to a Phillys Fan ;) LOL (This message was last edited by Bubbalou at 11:50 PM, Jun 26th, 2015) GP SW Burbs of Chitown Jun 28th, :29 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search Topic Since it is louder in the vehicle than outside, it sounds like a worn engine mount or something on the engine is grounding out to the body. Power steering will get louder turning if the system is low, aerated or worn pump. Jun 28th, :45 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search Topic Thanks. The fluid level is/was OK, and I carefully and thoroughly bled the system. A worn pump is a possibility, but the car has only 109K on it. I've seen the worn mount causation of noise discussed. I'll have to mention this possibility when I take it in. (This message was last edited by at 12:05 AM, Jun 29th, 2015) De ville WA I ain't no punk or nothn' dog! Jun 28th, :09 PM Edit Profile Print Topic Search Topic A visual inspection can be done if you can see the mounts. Might be hard on your vehicle, and it's not always clear if you have a broken mount by inspection. The other way is you check by looking for the engine to lift under load both in first gear and reverse. You keep your foot on the break and do not let the car move during the testing. Foot on break, don't let car move, put in first gear or drive and put some load on the engine. You do this in reverse also. If you have a broken mount the engine will lift a bit. You don't need to go crazy here. It's good to have help as you'd want the hood up and have an observer to the side to watch the engine. Edit to add: Had a broken mount on a V8. That dang 302 would lift up about 2" in reverse with a load and brakes on. That sucker would would make a thud when it slammed back down. (This message was last edited by De ville at 12:14 AM, Jun 29th, 2015) FDP Forum / Moe's Tavern (_8^(I) / Car problem diagnosis...?

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