4TH GEN SEATS IN A 3RD GEN TRUCK

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1 4TH GEN SEATS IN A 3RD GEN TRUCK by Flopster Oct 2016 If you drive a 3rd generation Dodge Ram truck, I am sure you have discovered that the OEM seats are not the greatest (Figure 1.) They are extremely uncomfortable for long trips and the seat foam is known to disintegrate and literally fall out. The seats out of a 4th generation Dodge Ram truck are vastly superior and are almost a direct bolt in swap. I acquired a set of seats from a 2011 Ram 1500 Quad Cab truck and the center jump seat out of a 2013 Ram 2500 Crew Cab truck to install in my 2008 Ram. I opted for the 13+ center jump seat because it had the three cup holders on the front and I can't use a full console with a manual transmission. Keep in mind that there is a difference between the seat mounting brackets of a 4th gen Quad Cab, Crew Cab, and Mega Cab truck; the quad cab is the closest to a direct bolt in. Figure 1: OEM 3rd Gen Front Sets (Left) and Rear Seats (Right) 1

2 REAR SEAT INSTALLATION I started with the rear seats. They looked like the closest thing to a direct bolt in because they had no wiring. The bottom brackets (Figure 2) are identical between a 3rd gen 60/40 rear seat and a 4th gen 60/40 rear seat, one side on each seat has an alignment dowel that you can see in the picture. The brackets that attach the seats to the back of the cab are slightly different and are spaced differently (the 4th gen brackets are further apart,) but they use the same cab mount. Figure 2: 3rd Gen (Left in image) vs. 4th Gen (Right in image) Seat Brackets Start by removing the rear seats completely from the truck. There are eight bolts (2 per bracket, 2 brackets per seat) holding the seats to the bottom of the cab. If you have the fold flat under seat storage racks, remove them now. If you need help removing the fold flat storage racks, see my "Fold Flat Install" on CarboniteCummins.com. Disconnect the upper rear brackets by lifting the seat upwards to slide them out of their mounts (Figure 3.) The center seatbelt runs through the passenger side seat and will need to be unbolted from the floor in order to remove the seat. Figure 3: Rear Seat Upper Brackets and Center Seat Belt

3 Set the new seats into position and align the lower mounting bolts. This will allow you to look behind the rear seats and see how far you have to move the OEM upper rear brackets for them to engage the new seats. Mark this location with some masking tape and a marker (Figure 4); then remove the seats from the truck. Figure 4: Upper Rear Seat Bracket Misalignment With the location marked, you can start the upper rear bracket modification; it simply unbolts from the back of the cab. The brackets must move towards the outside of the seat. I re-used one of the original bracket mounting holes and drilled a new hole for each bracket. I had to create a second hole for some of the brackets to allow room for the clip-on nut-plate to attach (Figure 5.) Trim back the rear wall insulation as necessary to clear the bracket. Try to keep as much of it in place as possible, it helps a lot to reduce the in-cab noise level. Figure 5: Rear Bracket Relocation There is a slight obstacle to simply moving the brackets; the cab is actually molded around the original mounting bracket locations, and the new hole I drilled is on a raised ridge in the back of the cab. This means the bracket will not simply bolt into place because it will not be square with the cab. To remedy this issue, you need to slightly adjust the rear cab wall with a hammer or remove approximately 1/4 inch

4 from one side of the bracket. Since I have some basic metal working tools, I opted to modify the bracket (Figure 6) instead of my cab. I cut the bracket apart with a hacksaw, and then re-weld the bracket back together. A little sanding and a light coat of rust inhibiting compound (paint) and it is as good as new. The bracket can then be reinstalled into its new location. I also applied some duct tape over the insulation where it was cut in hopes of keeping it together longer. Repeat this for the other three upper rear seat brackets. Figure 6: Rear Bracket Modification After all four upper rear seat brackets have been modified; the new rear seats can be permanently installed. You must lift the seats off the floor while pushing rearward on the seat backs and gently set them back down to engage the latches onto the modified brackets. Once the upper rear brackets are fully engaged, line up the lower brackets and reinstall the bolts holding the seats to the cab floor. Do not forget to reinstall the center seat belt and the seat belt latches. See Figure 7 for a comparison between the 3rd gen and 4th gen rear seats. The 4th gen seats have a taller back, but the seat bottom is the same height, width, and length as the OEM seats. Do you notice how much thicker the foam is in the 4th gen seats?

5 Figure 7: 3rd Gen Seat (Light Gray) vs. 4th Gen Seat (Dark Gray) Comparison FOLD FLAT STORAGE RACKS The fold flat storage racks under the rear seats are interchangeable between a 3rd gen and a 4th gen truck. I opted to keep the 3rd gen fold flats instead of the 4th gens. The 3rd gens are made of metal (Figure 8) and seem to be quite a bit stronger, and the ones I had in my truck were already coated with Line-X. The 4th gen fold flats are made entirely of plastic and feel weak to me.

6 Figure 8: 3rd gen (Short Side) vs. 4th gen (Long Side) Fold Flat Storage Racks FRONT SEAT ELECTRICAL After the rear seats were completed, I turned my attention to the front seats. The seats currently in my truck are power driver's side and manual passenger side with the center jump seat. I am installing the exact same setup with the new seats. I started with the power for the driver's seat. The 4th gen basic power seat only needs a hot wire and a ground to function and two wires for the seat belt warning chime, but the wiring harnesses are very different between the two styles of seats. Instead of cutting the connector off the truck's body harness, I decided to modify the new seats to fit my old power plug. To do this, I ordered a new under seat harness (Part Number AA) for my 3rd generation truck. I cut the main power connector off the new harness, leaving plenty of extra wire, and cut the main power connector off the 4th gen front seat. Utilizing the connector pin-out diagrams from the service manual with some solder and heat shrink, I mated the two harnesses together (Figure 9.) My 4th gen front seat now has a 3rd gen power plug and I left a +12V accessory wire for the center jump seat power outlet. You will have to modify this process a little to fit seats with different features, such as heating and cooling.

7 Figure 9: Wiring Harness Modification FRONT SEAT INSTALLATION Each of the front seats are secured with four bolts going into the floor of the cab. The center jump seat is secured to brackets that are part of the main seat base. To get the front seats out of the truck (Figure 10,) first remove the four bolts from each of the main seats. Carefully lean the entire front seat set backwards onto the rear seat. Disconnect the electrical connectors, and then remove the four nuts holding the center jump seat. When you disconnect the center jump seat, the other seats will move and might try to fall forward depending on how you positioned them. After everything is unbolted, carefully remove each seat from the truck. Use extreme caution when removing and installing the seats in the truck, it is extremely easy to scratch your paint with the seat brackets.

8 Figure 10: Front Seat Removal The new front seats will bolt directly in place using the old seat mounting points (Figure 11) and hardware. The newly modified power harness will also plug directly into the original truck wiring harness. Figure 11: New vs. Old Front Seat and New Seat Mounting Points

9 CENTER JUMP SEAT INSTALLATION On a 3rd gen truck, the center jump seat is held in place with 4 brackets that are made into the bases of the front seats. On a 4th gen truck, the center jump seat utilizes similar brackets on the passenger seat, but bolts to the floor on the driver's side. You could choose to secure the jump seat on the passenger side only, but it will not be stable and will wobble when you drive the truck (I tried it and it bothered me). You also do not have a place to attach the center seatbelt latch and will not be able to legally use the center seat for a passenger. Rather than drill holes in the cab floor to attach the 4th gen center seat brackets, I opted to fabricate a 3rd gen style mount for the center seat. Since the 4th gen passenger side brackets actually bolt to the seat base, I thought I could fasten it to the driver's side seat bracket in a similar fashion. I ordered the rear bracket (Part Number AA) because the front of the driver's seat base did not have enough material in the correct location to affix a bracket properly. With the new bracket in hand, I removed the driver's seat again, drilled two holes in the seat base, bolted it together (Figure 12,) and reinstalled the front seat. Figure 12: New Bracket On Driver's Seat After I got it all back in the truck, I realized I did not have a hole to bolt the seat belt latch to, so I had to drill a hole in the center seat bracket (Figure 13) and attach the seat belt latch. I then bolted the center jump seat to the three brackets in the truck. I had to bend the brackets around a little to get the center seat to set level. The center seat is stable, and I have a working seat belt for a passenger.

10 Figure 13: Custom Driver's Side Seat Center Bracket THE LITTLE THINGS Now that we have a majority of the work completed, we can focus on the little things to finish it. First up, the front seats will hit the lower trim panel on the B pillar when they are in the rearmost position. Sticking with my original goal of not modifying the truck at all, I decided to modify the plastic trim piece on the seat to gain the necessary clearance. I utilized a heat gun to soften the plastic enough to massage it out of the way so it does not hit anymore. It is not perfect, but it is hardly noticeable in the truck because the B pillar blocks nearly all of it. Figure 14: Front Seat Clearance Issues The 2013 center console I installed has a 12V power outlet, a USB connector, and an AUX input. The wiring harness for the 2013 center seat does not match up with the 2011 seat harness, so it will require some more custom wiring. I acquired a 2-wire Weather Pack connector to run power and ground to the center seat from the +12V accessory wire I left open in my driver's side harness. The 2013 jump seat has a red/black set of wires for the 12V outlet and a blue/black set for the USB connector (Figure 15). To supply power to both points, I soldered the blue/red wires together and connected them to the +12V source and both black wires were grounded.

11 Figure 15: Power Wires for Center Jump Seat Coming from the center seat, there are four green wires with stripes on them. These four wires are for the aux input (headphone jack) in the console. Three of these wires can be soldered to a female 3.5mm jack to allow you to run a 3.5mm extension cable to an aftermarket head unit. The light green wire with the light blue stripe is the right signal, light green/tan is the left signal, and light green/dark blue is the common (Figure 16). The light green wire with yellow stripe is for the device auto-detect feature and will not be used. The OEM head unit does not have provisions for a rear Aux input, so this connection will probably not do much good for most people. If you have an aftermarket radio, you can connect this new jack to your radio to gain an extra aux input.

12 Figure 16: Audio Wires for Aux Input Connection The USB port has a standard mini-usb connector on the bottom, which allows the use of any standard mini-usb cable. The 3rd gen OEM head unit doesn't have provisions for USB in it either. A USB cable needs both +12V and a +5v signal to work. It got a +12V signal when I connected power to the power outlet, but it needs radio with a USB port to give it the +5V signal before it will charge your cell phone. Lastly, these seats are a different color than the interior of the truck and they do not match the center jump seat because it came out of a different truck. I was intending to get some nice leather seat covers to make everything match, but I actually like the color variation. If you want something that will match the OEM light gray interior, look for a set of seats that are the "Diesel Gray" color like my center jump seat. It matches the carpet and the trim almost perfectly. I can honestly tell you that these seats are one of my top modifications ever. I cannot even begin to describe how much better they made the truck. The old seats were so bad that we did not drive it more than an hour at a time if we could help it, now the truck is our primary trip vehicle again. If you ever mod anything on your truck, 4th gen seats should be at the top of your list.

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